CrimsonGear80 posted...
Funnily enough the PC crowd has been able to change things.
change what exactly? Because there's more MTs in PC games than in console titles by far....
they killed paid mods...for a couple of years
Just shut the hell up and talk about games, im so tired of the politics of gaming...
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The vast majority of gamers don't give a damn about anything. They just want to play the games and pay no attention to industry news. Being on Gamefaqs, IGN, NeoGaf, whatever else and hearing people b**** about things doesn't even amount to 1% of the gaming public. The vocal minority.
You are hallucinating. Seek help immediately.
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It works all the time, its just typically subtle Remember online passes? those went away loot boxes are starting to replace map packs etc. as a way to monetize online games without splitting the community. I don't like them either, but the fact is, devs listened enough that they looked for ways to get away away from selling map packs. The way women are portrayed in games lately (as actual characters rather than generic love interests) shows that women voting with their wallets has had an effect. RE6 may have sold well in the long run, but it nearly killed Capcom in the short run, the game selling badly is directly responsible for them abandoning action and going back to horror. The declining sales in the AC franchise led to them taking a year off to allow for a longer dev cycle, that was clearly a result in a lot of us voting by not buying syndicate after unity was such a mess. Despite sony's best attempts to kill the vita, people keep buying those weird budget jrpgs on indies on it, so, whether sony likes it or not, the vita keeps getting them, and thus lives on as a zombie handheld. In general voting with your wallets inspires broad trends a few years later, not anything immediate and not something that is announced by devs directly, its subtle, but it works.
Just shut the hell up and talk about games, im so tired of the politics of gaming...
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AwayFromHere posted...
The vast majority of gamers don't give a damn about anything. They just want to play the games and pay no attention to industry news.
Being on Gamefaqs, IGN, NeoGaf, whatever else and hearing people b**** about things doesn't even amount to 1% of the gaming public. The vocal minority.
yeah, but that vocal minority tends to buy 4 games a month instead of 4 games a year like that majority, so probably worth paying attention to them, that 99% pretty much just buys first party and AAA games.
Just shut the hell up and talk about games, im so tired of the politics of gaming...
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Spacefrisian posted...
Nope, cause we are outnumbered by casuals and others who do not pay attention.
or maybe they do pay attention but just like the game or don't care or your problem it's not even an issue to them
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It works. Several times outrage elicited a response or simply shut a developer down due to poor sales.
Such as that new Sim City game that had to always be online? So much outrage happened that eventually they took the always online feature out. Although city skylines kind of took over in the meantime and stole their customers XD.
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It worked for Metroid Federation Force when nobody bought it.
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singhellotaku posted...
It works all the time, its just typically subtle
Remember online passes? those went away
loot boxes are starting to replace map packs etc. as a way to monetize online games without splitting the community. I don't like them either, but the fact is, devs listened enough that they looked for ways to get away away from selling map packs.
The way women are portrayed in games lately (as actual characters rather than generic love interests) shows that women voting with their wallets has had an effect.
RE6 may have sold well in the long run, but it nearly killed Capcom in the short run, the game selling badly is directly responsible for them abandoning action and going back to horror.
The declining sales in the AC franchise led to them taking a year off to allow for a longer dev cycle, that was clearly a result in a lot of us voting by not buying syndicate after unity was such a mess.
Despite sony's best attempts to kill the vita, people keep buying those weird budget jrpgs on indies on it, so, whether sony likes it or not, the vita keeps getting them, and thus lives on as a zombie handheld.
In general voting with your wallets inspires broad trends a few years later, not anything immediate and not something that is announced by devs directly, its subtle, but it works.
I'm not quite sure if the "Women voting with their wallets" bit is true or not. I think it's more along the line that we're getting more female devs which are allowing women to be written better. Not really much in terms of jrpgs but theyve never really had good women unless we're talking complete doormat.
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singhellotaku posted...
CrimsonGear80 posted...
Funnily enough the PC crowd has been able to change things.
change what exactly? Because there's more MTs in PC games than in console titles by far....
they killed paid mods...for a couple of years
It's up to consoles to raise hell about it. I'm not expecting it though.
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Xbox One's "always on" and "mandatory Kinect" are huge examples of public opinion affecting policy.
"message parlor" ? do you mean the post office ? - SlayerX888
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kaimine08 posted...
singhellotaku posted...
CrimsonGear80 posted...
Funnily enough the PC crowd has been able to change things.
change what exactly? Because there's more MTs in PC games than in console titles by far....
they killed paid mods...for a couple of years
It's up to consoles to raise hell about it. I'm not expecting it though.
I don't think consoles will care about PC problems ;)
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It only works if enough people do t
just your typical butthurt basement dweller
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SnakePlisken94 posted...
It only works if enough people do t
How does one do t?
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Sheepinator posted...
81 posts... I guess the kids don't know about the North American crash, which ended console gaming here for several years and saw thousands of games buried in a landfill.
early 80ies were struck by a recession. its not only video games that crashed and burned but a lot of other things.ET was just the cherry on the top. its not really voting with your wallet. i would say the recession ended in 85 or 86. A lot of people give too much credit to ET for starting it and Nintendo for ending the video game crash(you know how nintendo fanboys like to enlarge and exagerate everything nintendo does) but in fact its was just a global recession
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El_Zaggy posted...
Sheepinator posted...
81 posts... I guess the kids don't know about the North American crash, which ended console gaming here for several years and saw thousands of games buried in a landfill.
early 80ies were struck by a recession. its not only video games that crashed and burned but a lot of other things.ET was just the cherry on the top. its not really voting with your wallet. i would say the recession ended in 85 or 86. A lot of people give too much credit to ET for starting it and Nintendo for ending the video game crash(you know how nintendo fanboys like to enlarge and exagerate everything nintendo does) but in fact its was just a global recession
The recession lasted year and a half. Ended in November of 82.
It's a moo point. You know, like a cow's opinion. It doesn't matter. It's moo.
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CrimsonGear80 posted...
SegavsCapcom posted...
CrimsonGear80 posted...
Stallion_Prime posted...
It happened with the dmc reboot
Which sold almost 2 million copies and got a remaster? Yeah, terrible...
Capcom said it was disappointed with the sales, and we haven't seen a new game or news of one since.
It effectively killed the series.
They were happy with both the original and remastered versions:
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/devil-may-crys-future-isnt-tied-to-how-well-devil-/1100-6428432/
http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2015/09/05/capcom-talks-resident-evil-hd-ps4/
So when can we expect DMC 2? Since they are happy with the sales shouldn't they be rolling the next one out soon?
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simonbelmont2 posted...
CrimsonGear80 posted...
Stallion_Prime posted...
It happened with the dmc reboot
Which sold almost 2 million copies and got a remaster? Yeah, terrible...
I thought that was a decent game: decent combat and nice level design.
I loved it. But, the guy had the wrong color hair or something, so of course all the devs should lose their jobs and stuff, because gamers never over-react.
Put. That coffee. Down. Coffee's for closers only.
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(Topic Creator)2 days ago#118
El_Zaggy posted...
Sheepinator posted...
81 posts... I guess the kids don't know about the North American crash, which ended console gaming here for several years and saw thousands of games buried in a landfill.
early 80ies were struck by a recession. its not only video games that crashed and burned but a lot of other things.ET was just the cherry on the top. its not really voting with your wallet. i would say the recession ended in 85 or 86. A lot of people give too much credit to ET for starting it and Nintendo for ending the video game crash(you know how nintendo fanboys like to enlarge and exagerate everything nintendo does) but in fact its was just a global recession
Actually, the PC being introduced and dominating the market also killed the home console market. As well as the flooding of the market with s***ty games from companies who don't even normally publish games (e.g., Purina Dog food).
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(Topic Creator)2 days ago#119
Thanks for all of the great responses everyone.
I totally forgot the few "voting with your wallet" examples that people mentioned like the Xbox One that almost died before it even started due to that idiot Don Mattrick and his draconian DRM policy and focusing on TV instead of games. Thankfully Phil Spencer reversed all of the things that were anti-consumer and created a platform that even rivals the PS4 as the better console with so many great features to it.
Also, I forgot about the DmC fiasco. Thankfully, Capcom is hopefully deciding to bury that emo-Dante with the original Dante that everyone loves.
Ironically, I never heard about the Modern Warfare 2 boycott. I thought the game was a great follow-up to Modern Warfare. Probably the best game in the series actually. So I am unsure of what that was all about.
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El_Zaggy posted...
Sheepinator posted...
81 posts... I guess the kids don't know about the North American crash, which ended console gaming here for several years and saw thousands of games buried in a landfill.
early 80ies were struck by a recession. its not only video games that crashed and burned but a lot of other things.ET was just the cherry on the top. its not really voting with your wallet. i would say the recession ended in 85 or 86. A lot of people give too much credit to ET for starting it and Nintendo for ending the video game crash(you know how nintendo fanboys like to enlarge and exagerate everything nintendo does) but in fact its was just a global recession
Nintendo invested in gaming during said recession. Nintendo took a huge risk and got a huge payout for it. You can't diminish success so easy. PS to anybody who thinks online passes are dead: Gearbox never got called out and has set a successful standard how to fool everyone into buying them.
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secondhand1 posted...
El_Zaggy posted...
Sheepinator posted...
81 posts... I guess the kids don't know about the North American crash, which ended console gaming here for several years and saw thousands of games buried in a landfill.
early 80ies were struck by a recession. its not only video games that crashed and burned but a lot of other things.ET was just the cherry on the top. its not really voting with your wallet. i would say the recession ended in 85 or 86. A lot of people give too much credit to ET for starting it and Nintendo for ending the video game crash(you know how nintendo fanboys like to enlarge and exagerate everything nintendo does) but in fact its was just a global recession
The recession lasted year and a half. Ended in November of 82.
pretty sure you,re wrong. I'll go look on the internet edit here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_1980s_recessionglobally, it ended at around 1985
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1. Voting with your wallet is a very effective way for people to be heard in a free market. It is why we no longer have New Coke. 2. The fact that the practices you are against sometimes do not change does not mean the method is ineffective. It usually means that not enough people agree with you to force a change. 3. More discussions in this thread about certain posters being "corporate shills." IMO, that is an insult applied way too often on these boards. Just because some people are less outraged over certain Sony practices than others does not earn that insult. People who are outraged over DLC etc. should write to Sony, not criticize fellow gamers who have the audacity to not feel aggrieved by it. 4. Thank you for the interesting thread.
An opinion does not turn into a fact simply because the person holding it feels strongly about it.
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Voting with your wallet made Nintendo shift gears for the 3DS and got them back to the drawing board when the Wii U failed miserably. I could list a lot more examples for movies, but I'm keeping it vidya related.
Indie games aren't 3rd party games- TalesRevenant
You give Sony $60. They refund you $60. You give them $60 again. That's $120 to Sony. - Someone on this site
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Westernwolf4 posted...
More discussions in this thread about certain posters being "corporate shills."
20$ DLC that takes the devs six months to create and doubles a $60 game's length? "You're a corporate shill if you like such anti-consumer practice. I bought the game already, they should have to give me everything free." It's freaking absurd. If I like something, it's not because I feel the need to kiss a particular company's butt, it's because I like it and find the deal satisfactory. I don't buy horse armor on Skyrim, I buy expansions to campaign and gameplay DLC (I buy more game, not a different look on the same game). If people don't like the cosmetic crap, not supporting it and still buying the stuff you do care for (again, I'll pay 20$ to make my 60$ game that much better) is really about the best way to send that message. But there are always people who have more money than sense, so those extraneous options to buy useless crap will always exist. And the people buying it believe it is a fair deal, and that's nothing calling them a "corporate shill" is going to change. You're only a corporate shill if you secretly hate something but defend the practice anyway. I am ok with paid DLC that enhances my game and gives me more stuff to play with, and not OK with garbage that reskins a couple items. So, I support the part I actually like to encourage devs to make more of that.
Love and joy, and joyness
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Voting with your wallet doesn't work. The majority rarely ever equals the best reasoning. If anything the majority equals the lowest common denominator today and lowers the standards of anything it's involved with.
It's the same reason a democracy doesn't work. (let's assume voting is real, and you did have a say) Any two idiots can outvote the most intelligent person alive. We see this daily. We basically live in a real life version of Idiocracy. :(
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Mirage13 posted...
People always say that if you don't like something in the gaming industry to vote with your wallet and don't support the publisher of a game who bothers you. Well I have avoided buying games with abusive microtransactions and DLC practices, as well as nonsensical SJW themes and the practice of each of these is getting worse by the year on the PS4/Xbox One. What gives?
Is "voting with your wallet" really an appropriate thing to say given how many consumers there are who enjoy this hobby and engage in such idiotic behaviors? Has an abusive and horrible publisher practice ever been reversed for the gamer? I can't think of one instance where it happened. Can you?
Yes, voting with your wallet works just fine. And it's perfectly reasonable for one to feel this way when the vote doesn't end up in their favor.
Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits them, I don't give a **** how crazy they are!
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Yes, it has worked in several situations. I believe quite a few of these were mentioned earlier, so I won't rehash them. However, not everything people dislike is something that the general populace has "agreed upon" and thus some things still happen because the "voting with wallets" outcome went in the other direction - people being okay with it. Just like any sort of a vote, your option won't always be what "wins" the vote.
Stupid, stupid rat creatures!!!
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CrimsonGear80 posted...
shawnmck posted...
Yes...People refused to buy Dead Space 3, so the series was cancelled. Same with Mass Effect Andromeda and other games. People complaining about No Man's Sky and demanding refunds caused the Developer to actually keep their promises by updating the game and adding MP. So it does work.
Mass Effect sold very well, though.
EA games is smart enough to know that a game made as part of a series will get the vast majority of sales from the previous entry. Mass Effect:A sold very well because of the previous trilogy people were overconfident and jumped right in without question you see the same thing with certain other series. However after that the feedback was so bad that the stink of ME:A would hamper the sales of any future game they'd make. More or less ME:A and other games like DS3, M. Club 3 went and badly damaged the brand name to the point the only viable option was to cut some losses and either cancel or put the brand on the shelf for a few years. Sort of like how Assassins Creed took time off and hopes to rekindle the brand with Origins after its break.
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ShELbY_GT500 posted...
Funnily enough the PC crowd has been able to change things.
The problem I see with console gaming is there's a lot of kids playing them. Nothing wrong with that. But kids are naive and susceptible. They don't really understand what it means when they spend $100 on micro transactions nor do they really care.
actually...no remember most PC ports still suck @ShELbY_GT500
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@ topic I don't think so, because in the end it's the majority, who wins. You may vote as you wish, if you're not with the majority, your vote counts for nothing.
PSN: bmouse
The thrown rose is only significant in it's insignificance.
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There has to be a significant purality doing it over a significant period of time and that has to be made clear to parties involved. I've rarely heard of such an organized effort. It's video games... it's kind of a dumbass hobby with people that don't have their s*** together. Of course they're not gonna be able to make a statement. Some still stutter talking to the opposite sex.
I've seen the future, baby: it is murder
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People tell you to vote with your wallet instead of being vocal because they're just trying to shut you up. Thing is? Being vocal is the only thing that has been proved to be at all effective.
The commercial says that Church isn't for perfect people, I guess that's why I'm an atheist.
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Enclave posted...
People tell you to vote with your wallet instead of being vocal because they're just trying to shut you up. Thing is? Being vocal is the only thing that has been proved to be at all effective.
I don't really think that's true. Complaining seems like the easiest and least effective thing.
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Sacred_Arfaid posted...
Enclave posted...
People tell you to vote with your wallet instead of being vocal because they're just trying to shut you up. Thing is? Being vocal is the only thing that has been proved to be at all effective.
I don't really think that's true. Complaining seems like the easiest and least effective thing.
Except it works. Tell me, without outrage and complaints how exactly would people have found out about the Xbox One DRM? Loud and sustained outrage and complaints while annoying? Works. Sure not 100% of the time but definitely more often than when you quietly accept BS because you don't want to possibly offend fanboys who hate you for having a valid complaint.
The commercial says that Church isn't for perfect people, I guess that's why I'm an atheist.
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Enclave posted...
Except it works. Tell me, without outrage and complaints how exactly would people have found out about the Xbox One DRM?
Through rational conversations about a major news story in gaming industry? I don't need some irritating forum use with perma-caps lock to tell me about DRM and how it's not all that good for me. Here's a question for you: What was the final nail in the coffin that sparked a change in the policy? The 8:1 pre-order ratio in favor of the PS4. You can complain all you want, but if that complaining doesn't cost these companies money, all you're doing is barking.
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DOAbayman posted...
i don't think understand what voting is. just because you voted doesn't mean you win.
This.
You look EXTREMELY immature when you announce that you're about to ignore someone. No one cares, including the person about to be ignored. Just FYI.
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ChaoticKnuckles posted...
DOAbayman posted...
i don't think understand what voting is. just because you voted doesn't mean you win.
This.
That.
Posted with GameRaven 3.2.2
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Sacred_Arfaid posted...
Enclave posted...
Except it works. Tell me, without outrage and complaints how exactly would people have found out about the Xbox One DRM?
Through rational conversations about a major news story in gaming industry? I don't need some irritating forum use with perma-caps lock to tell me about DRM and how it's not all that good for me.
Here's a question for you: What was the final nail in the coffin that sparked a change in the policy? The 8:1 pre-order ratio in favor of the PS4. You can complain all you want, but if that complaining doesn't cost these companies money, all you're doing is barking.
You know how you get major news to cover a gaming story? Outrage. It needs to be controversial enough that they feel the need to cover it. If you just shut up about it and take it then nothing will ever happen. Word doesn't spread if people don't spread it.
The commercial says that Church isn't for perfect people, I guess that's why I'm an atheist.
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YoshioKST posted...
'Voting with our wallets' also killed the DmC reboot, for which I am still grateful.
Still best moment of my life seeing it fail twice and watch DMC4SE made a lot of money for capcom.
PSN: Sckarton ; Wii U: Sckarton ; Steam: psn_sckarton ; Xbox Live : Raze o Skarreor 3DS Friend code: 5456-0704-4812 http://valid.x86.fr/cp6mzk my pc rig
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LordKaizer posted...
YoshioKST posted...
'Voting with our wallets' also killed the DmC reboot, for which I am still grateful.
Still best moment of my life seeing it fail twice and watch DMC4SE made a lot of money for capcom.
That is a very sad life.
Put. That coffee. Down. Coffee's for closers only.
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Voting with your wallet only impacts you. Unless everybody else agrees and votes with their wallets, a single person opting not to support the game isn't going to guarantee a change.
If you're holding out for a change against something you don't like, you need to come to terms that it most likely won't change anytime soon, and not everybody is going to agree with you. So in that case, you'll either need to adapt to the new core audience or move on.
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Enclave posted...
You know how you get major news to cover a gaming story? Outrage.
Not really. It's not like new sites latched on the this as a result of outrage, but it's a subject matter that gets people attention. For one, details on a new system is always worth talking about and even more so when it's this controversial. You are giving whiners more credit than they deserve.
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I'm really not, the mainstream news never covers gaming unless there's some kind of outrage going on or sometimes if something is ridiculously popular like the Wii was.
The commercial says that Church isn't for perfect people, I guess that's why I'm an atheist.
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At the end of the day, all it does is cause publishers to say "oh well, they're not interested in it" rather than acknowledging that it was their scummy actions that caused people to boycott it. However "voting with your wallet" is such a rare thing since there are too many people who are either ignorant or just don't care. Publishers see this as confirmation that people are willing to be f***ed, so they'll push their luck more and more until they reach a breaking point. So you can vote with your wallet and hope others follow, but most of the time it's futile. However, if you don't try then you can never win. I'm voting with my wallet for Shadow of War. I'll eventually buy it (unless it's total garbage), but only when it's dirt cheap. Really all wallet voters can hope for is for large Youtubers to get on and completely trash the game before it comes out so that a sizeable number will follow suit. Of course, letting everyone know, despite the backlash you'll get from the shills (especially on here) is important. Every person woken up to what the publishers are trying to pull is a victory. CrimsonGear80 posted...
apparently, and this may come as a shocker....not everyone agrees with whatever the hell you may think!
Calm down son, he didn't mention even Sony, he just said about certain games.
Specs: i7 4790k@4.6GHz |EVGA 1080 FTW| 16GB RAM - GLORIOUS PC MASTER RACE!
TRUMP IS THE GREATEST US PRESIDENT!
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It works for me, TC. I've yet to spend my money on anything that I didn't want. Mission accomplished!
"I know it's crooked, but it's the only game in town." - Canada Bill Jones
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The Assassin's Creed franchise is one obvious example. It got uninspired in a couple annual-release games, sales cratered, and Ubi changed their strategy.
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kyncani posted...
kaimine08 posted...
singhellotaku posted...
CrimsonGear80 posted...
Funnily enough the PC crowd has been able to change things.
change what exactly? Because there's more MTs in PC games than in console titles by far....
they killed paid mods...for a couple of years
It's up to consoles to raise hell about it. I'm not expecting it though.
I don't think consoles will care about PC problems ;)
but it's on consoles too. heck, bethesda exclusively talked about paid mod for consoles more than pc since they know pc won't let BS go fly by as shown with steam trying to do that few years back.
PSN: Sckarton ; Wii U: Sckarton ; Steam: psn_sckarton ; Xbox Live : Raze o Skarreor 3DS Friend code: 5456-0704-4812 http://valid.x86.fr/cp6mzk my pc rig
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If voting with your wallet actually worked season passes, microtransactions, loot boxes and online only DRM wouldn't exsit and be so prevalent like it is today. But here we are and the cancer still festers. So no i don't believe voting with your wallet works enough to make a substantial difference.
UK Female Gamer Who needs special edition consoles when you have this --> http://tinyurl.com/jxaf4j4 You don't have to buy it, it's optional m'kay.
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huyi posted...
If voting with your wallet actually worked season passes, microtransactions, loot boxes and online only DRM wouldn't exsit and be so prevalent like it is today.
No as voting with your wallet is goes both ways. Too many people are just voting in favor of these things by paying for them.
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huyi posted...
If voting with your wallet actually worked season passes, microtransactions, loot boxes and online only DRM wouldn't exsit and be so prevalent like it is today.
But here we are and the cancer still festers.
So no i don't believe voting with your wallet works enough to make a substantial difference.
idk...it just goes to show how inconsequential of a minority you guys really are and how out of touch with reality most of you haters seem to be
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HE'S WATCHING YOUKittyBillionair posted...
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