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- Nintendo 3DS
- Are Pokemon X and Y the worst Pokemon games?
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Topic - Results (388 votes)
Yes, they're bland, boring and forgettable
27.84%
108
No, I liked X and Y
49.23%
191
No, I loved X and Y
22.94%
89
"The mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell"
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Nope that goes to original D/P thankfully Platinum fixed most of the problems with that mess.
PSN ID- djx1100/ 3DS FC:3068-0095-9026 Steam ID: Djx1100
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djmetal777 posted...
Nope that goes to original D/P This 100 percent.
Now Playing: Dragon Quest VI (DS), Darksiders: Warmastered (Wii U), Etrian Odyssey Untold
3DS FC: 4167-4549-4028 NNID: TotalJakeout |
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Diamond/Pearl are worse.
And, on reflection, so were Sun/Moon, despite the increase in difficulty and the excellent visual overhaul. They feel like they're always funneling you from one cutscene to the next.
Currently playing: Persona 5 (PS4)
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Since platinum exists, I'm not really worried about diamond/pearl being worse, so overall I'll say yes, X/Y are the worst. But I like all of them.
Best weapon combo in tf2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oUWPbS4450&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.last.fm/user/iammax |
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I don't really think any are bad, but my least favorite is Gen 3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZUi9xKY8X8
^^^Still one of my favorite P4 tracks! |
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iammaxhailme posted...
Since platinum exists, I'm not really worried about diamond/pearl being worse Platinum doesn't retroactively make those games better.
Now Playing: Dragon Quest VI (DS), Darksiders: Warmastered (Wii U), Etrian Odyssey Untold
3DS FC: 4167-4549-4028 NNID: TotalJakeout |
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I didn't say it does, I just consider platinum the definitive gen 4 game, so who cares if D/P are worse than X/Y? Platinum is way better than X/Y. Saying D/P is worse than X/Y may kinda be true but it hides the fact that there is a better gen 4 game (platinum) than X/Y.
Of course this is all opinions, but that's how I see it
Best weapon combo in tf2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oUWPbS4450&feature=channel_video_title
http://www.last.fm/user/iammax |
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iammaxhailme posted...
so who cares if D/P are worse than X/Y? The question is if XY are the worst games. If games exist that are worse, then XY cannot be the worst.
Now Playing: Dragon Quest VI (DS), Darksiders: Warmastered (Wii U), Etrian Odyssey Untold
3DS FC: 4167-4549-4028 NNID: TotalJakeout |
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DP and XY are my top favorite ones. Platinum may have more content but the MC outfits and weather were better in DP.
SymphonicGlory posted... No, that dishonor goes to Sun and Moon. Also this.
Everything will be fire.
(edited 1 week ago)quote
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I haven't play them, but I can't imagine them being worse than D/P or heck Trozei (especially), in my opinion.
Still waiting for a good Mario Tennis and Paper Mario RPG, Camelot and Intelligent Systems
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Well I've had a lot of fun with Pokemon Y. First Pokemon game since Emerald though.
Recently beat: Valkyria Chronicles, FFXV, Rogue Galaxy, Persona 4&5
Playing or waiting for: Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth, Pokemon Y, Life is Strange, ESO |
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Technically speaking the Gen 1 games are the worst. That's not really debatable. Why the hate for Gen 4? It's a great game that finally changed how special attack and physical attacks work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZUi9xKY8X8
^^^Still one of my favorite P4 tracks! |
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AsunaSAOYuuki posted...
Technically speaking the Gen 1 games are the worst. That's not really debatable. Why the hate for Gen 4? It's a great game that finally changed how special attack and physical attacks work. Diamond and Pearl just seem poorly thought out. They had the worst HM bloat of any games in the series, the Pokedex was lackluster (missing most of the new additions until after the postgame?) as well as the variety (only two fire type lines in the whole game but hey, let's make a fire type E4 member anyway), the engine was very slow making everything tedious (especially considering they added swamps/mud to further slow you down), the story was a copy/paste retread of R/S/E, and overall it was just very disappointing. Starters were solid and some mechanics introduced were great, but until Platinum fixed a lot of these problems it just wasn't a very good time.
Now Playing: Dragon Quest VI (DS), Darksiders: Warmastered (Wii U), Etrian Odyssey Untold
3DS FC: 4167-4549-4028 NNID: TotalJakeout |
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I never understood why people care about the regional dex. The only thing that matters is how many Pokémon are obtainable in a single version, and DP had plenty. That's better than Black/White's all original region dex with barebones total of Pokémon, where you can't even obtain a darned Pikachu of all things.
Everything will be fire.
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I played Pokemon X for a month or two and I got most of the Nintendo Give away Legendaries including Acerus and Victrini.
My FC is 4957-4763-9094 (Pokemon Sun) PS3: hellfighter45 Current: D3:UE, Xenoverse 1
PS VITA/PS4: hellfighter44 Current: Digimon Cyber , DB Xenoverse 2 |
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SymphonicGlory posted...
No, that dishonor goes to Sun and Moon.
"Tell me how he died."
"I will tell you how he lived." |
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xF0x posted...
I never understood why people care about the regional dex. The only thing that matters is how many Pokémon are obtainable in a single version, and DP had plenty. That's better than Black/White's all original region dex with barebones total of Pokémon, where you can't even obtain a darned Pikachu of all things. Because those are the Pokemon you play through most of the game with? Not to mention how many Pokemon D/P hid away behind Swarms/GBA insertion/the horrible honey mechanic.
Now Playing: Dragon Quest VI (DS), Darksiders: Warmastered (Wii U), Etrian Odyssey Untold
3DS FC: 4167-4549-4028 NNID: TotalJakeout |
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xF0x posted...
I never understood why people care about the regional dex. The only thing that matters is how many Pokémon are obtainable in a single version, and DP had plenty. That's better than Black/White's all original region dex with barebones total of Pokémon, where you can't even obtain a darned Pikachu of all things. You totally ignore the fact if you want a fire Pokemon that isnt Chimchar or Ponyta (or Heatran), you would have to trade for it. As much as i like those two, it would've been far better to have options like Magmar, Houndour, and Numel running around. |
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Black/White and Sun/Moon are trash tier at best. X/Y is ok.
Playing: Etrian Odyssey 2 Untold: The Fafnir Knight; Touhou 15 - Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom; The Legend of Zelda: BotW; Kancolle; WoW: Legion.
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No that's R/B and B/W.
FC: 0533 4875 0540 IGN: Luna
Playing: Fire Emblem Echoes, Hyrule Warriors Legends (3DS) |
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Literally every other mainline game is better than the gen 1 games.
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Well, they did introduce the abomination known as megas.. have the lowest number of new mon.. and have the most boring map, characters and plot (some silly BS involving a giant, was it?) i've experienced. So it may just be, TC.
I haven't played S/M though.
(edited 1 week ago)quote
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I've yet to play S/M so I can't comment on those, but from gen 1 to 6 in my opinion yes they are the worst. Almost killed my interest in the franchise completely, thankfully OR/AS managed to salvage it thanks to their lighthearted tone and charm (it also helps gen 3 may well be my favourite gen).
X/Y took themselves way too seriously, had the silliest evil group (because fashion? really??), and I found the music to be very forgettable. Oh and the elite four was downright pathetic. But you wanna know the one thing I hated most? Finally having wonderful omnidirectional movement with the fantastic circle pad and before the first bloody gym it gets taken away for the skates which were a complete nuisance, hard to control and absolutely worthless in the grass with no way of deactivating them. They couldn't just be another select item? We had four slots for crying out loud! The one concession I do give them is they are quite good for nuzlockes; the wide variety of pokemons on display make for more varied team compositions on different runthroughs. Of course that does mean actually having to bear the god awful story and characters...
(edited 1 week ago)quote
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I've not played Gen 3 or 4, but Sun/Moon were the worst of the ones I've played.
If you have 4 pencils and 7 apples, how many pancakes will fit on the roof? Purple, because aliens don't wear hats.
http://www.backloggery.com/ellipse |
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People saying Gen 1 is the worst just stop. I'd say black and white are probably the worst.
I'm JDuncs, I'm 29, a proud Rhode Islander.
My Teams are the Boston Celtics, Dallas Cowboys, Boston Red Sox. & Boston Bruins. |
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Nope, that's Gold/Silver by a clear country mile.
"The essence of magic is to determine the root cause of all things.
There's no distinction between science and magic." ~ Patchouli Knowledge |
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No while the evil team in X and Y was ... I'll be nice and just say ridiculous, it's story is loads better than Sun and Moon. I did actually rathe enjoy the friend safaris. I thought it was great. Literally the only redeming qualities Sun and Moon have are Pokemon rides (so you don't have to carry a certain move and Pokemon), and the Bottlecaps. Everything else was worse.
The following terms are used by the people they describe: fanboy, noob, scrub, kiddy.
My gaming videos => http://www.youtube.com/user/xoftheuniverse |
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JDuncs posted...
People saying Gen 1 is the worst just stop. I'd say black and white are probably the worst. Why? Every other gen made improvements to most, if not all aspects of gen 1, making gen 1 worse than all of them. |
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Azardea posted...
JDuncs posted...People saying Gen 1 is the worst just stop. I'd say black and white are probably the worst. How old are you?
I'm JDuncs, I'm 29, a proud Rhode Islander.
My Teams are the Boston Celtics, Dallas Cowboys, Boston Red Sox. & Boston Bruins. |
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No, Gen 5 was terrible.
Black and White were meh at best, and BW2 were boring as heck. But there were good things about them. Skyla and Elysia were two, the battle system was better refined, and Kyurem and Hydreigon were introduced, along with a few decent other Pokemon I happened to like.
Caboose: That also led to a discovery of a land to the north, which Kolumbo called Canada. Canada is Spanish for "You're welcome!"
Sarge: WHAT!?
(edited 1 week ago)quote
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The worst Pokémon Gen award goes to Gen 1
Pokemon Mystery Dungeon is one of if not the best spin off to a franchise ever!
#Twintelle4Smash5 |
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JDuncs posted...
Azardea posted...JDuncs posted...People saying Gen 1 is the worst just stop. I'd say black and white are probably the worst. I mean, their argument has solid reasoning regardless of how old they are. I personally dislike D/P the most but I can see why, potentially even more objectively, Gen 1 is the most flawed generation. What with the technical limitations, the glitches (especially some pretty crucial mechanical ones), and the horrible balance.
Now Playing: Dragon Quest VI (DS), Darksiders: Warmastered (Wii U), Etrian Odyssey Untold
3DS FC: 4167-4549-4028 NNID: TotalJakeout |
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macknifficent89 posted...
not as long as gen 4 and 5 exist
You can't have a nightmare, if you never dream.
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djmetal777 posted...
Nope that goes to original D/P thankfully Platinum fixed most of the problems with that mess. This guy gets it. Diamond & Pearl were abysmal.
"Cower before the might of the magic Imhullu: once forbidden, now unleashed!"
-Gharnef (Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon) |
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No, gen 1 exists.
3DS FC:1375-8350-6103; Switch FC: 5454-0571-3814
Mii Name: Luigi; NNID: MARIOS_BRO123 |
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No, Sun/Moon are worse. They are the only Pokemon game I didn't want to replay because how tedious it is to skip all those text. Every towns, every routes and even inside Pokemon Central, they all go blah blah blah Nebby blah blah blah getting stronger blah blah blah fight me.
Pokemon Moon - FC: 0190-2774-1631
(edited 1 week ago)quote
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JDuncs posted...
Azardea posted...JDuncs posted...People saying Gen 1 is the worst just stop. I'd say black and white are probably the worst. Buddy, I've been playing since Red and Blue and from a gameplay standpoint they are the worst of the series. Great games at the time for sure, but every subsequent entry has improved on them.
Hope rides alone
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I don't think X/Y were the worst, but it's pretty close. To me, B/W were the worst. I didn't play B2/W2 so I can't judge that. I also didn't play D/P, though I did play Platinum and enjoyed Platinum very much. I enjoyed Sun/Moon more than X/Y too.
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Tkmajing posted...
macknifficent89 posted...not as long as gen 4 and 5 exist Gen 4 was the best
3DS FC:1375-8350-6103; Switch FC: 5454-0571-3814
Mii Name: Luigi; NNID: MARIOS_BRO123 |
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Azardea posted...
Literally every other mainline game is better than the gen 1 games.
...or whatever.
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- Boards
- Nintendo 3DS
- Are Pokemon X and Y the worst Pokemon games?
- Boards
- Nintendo 3DS
- Are Pokemon X and Y the worst Pokemon games?
JDuncs posted...Azardea posted...
JDuncs posted...
People saying Gen 1 is the worst just stop. I'd say black and white are probably the worst.
Why? Every other gen made improvements to most, if not all aspects of gen 1, making gen 1 worse than all of them.
How old are you?
Old enough for your argument to be useless.Comparing mechanics is only really worthwhile to a point. Obviously Gen 1 is going to lack gameplay elements that exist in the newer games. When it comes to comparing generations, I think story, new Pokémon, region layout, characters, music, and art style, should be considered alongside gameplay elements.
Like R/B/Y are clearly a bit outdated, but they introduced a great batch of Pokémon, had a better story than most (simple, but to-the-point), and featured memorable music tracks. That's why I enjoy those games more than, say, R/S/E which I found to have particularly weak Pokémon designs and story even if the mechanics were smoothed out and expanded a bit.
On topic: Nope. X and Y are great."De edu sud tovouk General Scales!" - General Scales, Star Fox Adventures
StarD86 is forever my hero!(edited 1 week ago)quoteThe fact that the fanbase can even entertain this question when DP, BW, or SM exist illustrates exactly why the Pokémon fanbase deserves the slop that Game Freak so loves to feed them.
6 is marginally more brain-dead than the other entries that are already easy enough to where a 6-year-old could effortlessly solo a game, and some of its additions are kind of dumb. Compared to 5 and 7 outright removing many core features, or 4 performing twice as bad with half the requirements, there is not a single sin from XY that can compete.4038-5999-4824Emmy_Altava posted...The fact that the fanbase can even entertain this question when DP, BW, or SM exist illustrates exactly why the Pokémon fanbase deserves the slop that Game Freak so loves to feed them.
6 is marginally more brain-dead than the other entries that are already easy enough to where a 6-year-old could effortlessly solo a game, and some of its additions are kind of dumb. Compared to 5 and 7 outright removing many core features, or 4 performing twice as bad with half the requirements, there is not a single sin from XY that can compete.
...... what core features did gen 5 remove?
d/p's engine may be slow but at least it didn't stutter like a b**** when battling a koffing with 3d off. x/y set an abysmal technical foundation with ugly washed out 3d models that haunted every other mainline entry on the 3ds
lumiose city's camera was f***ing terrible, easily the worst in the series so far
as if sticking with grid based movement wasn't bad enough, how did you like roller skates being mapped onto the circle pad too? thank god no other 3ds pokemon game suffered from something so asinine
x/y also marked the beginning of even more gen 1 pandering than usual (to the point where they shove the gen 1 starters in your face early on in the story) and a nauseating emphasis on virtual tourismDandeeLeone posted...Hell no, that honor goes to Gen 7
Nah, Gen 7 was pretty good3DS FC:1375-8350-6103; Switch FC: 5454-0571-3814
Mii Name: Luigi; NNID: MARIOS_BRO123Where's the "No, Black/White was worse" option?
Because X/Y was godawful BECAUSE so many of the new pokémon, as few as they were, looked like Fifth Generation leftovers.....
Hell, the Fairy type was actually a good addition.
Mega Evolutions are definitely cancerous though. And I say this as someone who has abused the hell out of Mega Salamence in Sun/Moon Battle Spot Singles. (Hey, I play to win.)I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will fight to the death for my right to fight you to the death. -Stephen Colbert(edited 1 week ago)quoteye
that's why XY never got its expansion game. even GF knew they couldn't fix something so fundamentally awfulThey are still good games. I wouldn't call them boring bland or forgettable.
They just aren't as good as the rset.Love conquers everything ... except knives, swords, axes, guns, spears, fists, rocks, strong gusts of wind, and/or dangerous wild animals.no, but as most recent pokemon games, they've been quite undercookedFC: 3840-6927-7945, have OR/Y/SM4SH/PSMD I'm a youtuber, here is my link: https://m.youtube.com/#/user/bigbangpegasusmaster.I play gamesNo that's Red and BlueReading internet jokes- http://tinyurl.com/qdxttnh
Reading a poorly written argument- http://tinyurl.com/o3f3nnePurugly posted...ye
that's why XY never got its expansion game. even GF knew they couldn't fix something so fundamentally awfulCurrently Playing: Fate/Grand Order587Deathking posted...No that's Red and Blue
I wonder if several users here like to type with big meaty claws. If not, they don't defend dumb choices like Pokemon Transporter or Nintendo charging for OLMP.Gladiant posted...No, Sun/Moon are worse. They are the only Pokemon game I didn't want to replay because how tedious it is to skip all those text. Every towns, every routes and even inside Pokemon Central, they all go blah blah blah Nebby blah blah blah getting stronger blah blah blah fight me.
Nebby is the worst secondary character in ANY Pokemon game. Lillie should have hand-cuffed that brat to the bag.My take on Pokemon best to worst
BW/2 > (OrAs) > SM > GSC > (FrLg) > RSE > RBY > DPP > XY
So yes, I see XY as the worst of them. Even if not for the ill-conceived fairy type, an attempt to use a type based solution to fix a stat based problem, the plot, characters, and events all stuck out as shallow and dumb, especially for a Pokemon game, which is sad because I felt BW/2 was a series high in regard to those, and had hoped it would be the beginning of an upward trend.Surrender and I will destroy you peacefully. R.E.G.I.S. mk5 - Megas XLR
Omega Ruby Secret Base - https://www.dropbox.com/s/rrht5cvsjiyfnrj/SecretBase.JPGGardens posted...Gladiant posted...
No, Sun/Moon are worse. They are the only Pokemon game I didn't want to replay because how tedious it is to skip all those text. Every towns, every routes and even inside Pokemon Central, they all go blah blah blah Nebby blah blah blah getting stronger blah blah blah fight me.
Nebby is the worst secondary character in ANY Pokemon game. Lillie should have hand-cuffed that brat to the bag.
Benny, Lillie, Hau, all of them were unbearable. I think Acerola and a couple others like the old man were the only characters I didn't hate. Everyone else was honestly just terrible. And I was cringing so god damn hard when they tried to get you to be emotional about saying bye to Lillie.FC: 5112-4220-0277Absolutely not!"Life's a game. It's meant to be played."
"Amateurs built the Ark. Professionals built the Titanic."Compared to every other generation, Gen 6 was very lackluster. Personally, I do believe it to be the worst so far.Jack! Jack! He's my psycho maniac! <3What's funny about Pokemon is people will never agree on what was the best or worst pokemon. Each gen made changes both positive and negative to some, and the base game has always been the same. Each gen is going to appeal to a different person. None of them are "bad" games.FC: 2852-7398-0118Gen 6 felt refreshing tbh, even if the games did lack in content and the pacing was just odd... was happy to see the pokeradar back, despite it being not as useful as it was in DPPt.
Imo, Black and White were the worst. Followed by Sun and Moon. Platinum was the best mainline game followed by Emerald. They should go back to creating a 3rd version instead of sequels, XY could've really benifit from it...Black and White were the worst.Today is the day: Bomberman, Paper Mario, K.Rool, Wonder Red, and Goku for Smash.Absolutely not. White/Black, White2/Black2 and the worst generation which was the third.
The only generation that might be better than X/Y is the fourth one. I'm not including the first two because they are objectively the best ones, no discussion.
For me X/Y are the third best generation after the first two, though the fourth comes close.+ | + https://marcoagj.wordpress.com/ + | +
| | | | https://miiverse.nintendo.net/users/Marco_AGJ | | | |They're not worse than D/P but other than that...yeah.
People can bash Gen V all they want but Black 2 STILL has the best post-game content of the series alongside HGSS PLUS Hard Mode.(edited 4 days ago)quoteWhat does liking or not have to do with the question if they are the worst Pokemon games?
You can like them but still consider them the worst in the series (well, main games, of course)3DS FC : 3411-1762-0066Do people actually think RGBY are better than XY? FRLG, sure, because it's objectively better than RGBY, but I cannot understand how someone could possibly like RGBY more.3DS FC:1375-8350-6103; Switch FC: 5454-0571-3814
Mii Name: Luigi; NNID: MARIOS_BRO123(edited 4 days ago)quoteThey still had the national pokedex, so I like them more than sun and moon by default.'None of those are FACT apart from house going to catch fire which could technically happen.' - edgyfury 22/10/2016
'Please remove your signature' - edgyfuryMetastase posted...They're not worse than D/P but other than that...yeah.
People can bash Gen V all they want but Black 2 STILL has the best post-game content of the series alongside HGSS PLUS Hard Mode.
I never saw the post-game. After the 3rd gym I just wanted to throw the game in the garbage bin.Playing: Etrian Odyssey 2 Untold: The Fafnir Knight; Touhou 15 - Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom; The Legend of Zelda: BotW; Kancolle; WoW: Legion.After replaying platinum, omega ruby, y and white 1/2 for nuzlocke challenge platinum holds up really well and 5th gen held up the worst seriously only good parts of 5th gen either had to do with legendaries or N everything else was a long slog. Also people imo people usually pick on 4th gen the most even though it technically gave over 50% of the mechanics that are used today for pokemon. Also hardmode nuzlocke is literally just extra damn audinos that had to die. I do agree that diamond/pearl felt incomplete when compared to platinum but worst is still first gen because of technical limitations. From plot stand point sad to say but that goes to gold/silver/crystal/hg/ss because neo rocket sucks so bad.Definitely either RBY or SuMoXY, ORAS and SM all have been lackluster for me in some major form or another. Even though BW made me litterally quit Pokemon for 3 years with it removing features and tying them to a website that predictedly wouldn't be around forever, it had a good story, exploration was great, and the Pokemon selection was plenty.
XY had no content after the main game, and the story was bad, especially after BW/BW2. The amount of new Pokemon was low. If they weren't going to go for a 3rd game, they should have made this the best they could have.
ORAS not only was underwhelming as a remake, it cut features from the base games like the Berry Blending game, cut Secret Base teams for training from 6 to 3, completely ignored almost every improvement Emerald made, and more.
SM had to many cutscenes that could not be skipped(I defended this at launch but a second playthrough was so forced I'm not doing it ever again), there is no way to level past 68 unless you grind FC to grind levels, the communication systems are really bad coming straight from the best the series ever had in Gen 6, there is almost nothing to do yet again after the game is over, and did I mention how bad the communication system was?
If USUM doesn't fix these problems, I'm just not buying it at all. I didn't buy BW2 until after I heard about all it did to improve the base game of BW1. I should have done the same with the last three games instead of buying day 1. Tired of getting screwed over.3DS Friend Code:0044 4173 2062
IGN: Is Abram/Abe.....Friend Safari: Steel - Klang/Magneton/Klefki Gen 6 TSV: 1607 GEN 7 TSV: 3556I thought Y was fine. Black turned me off of the series for a while, though. Prior to B/W, I hadn't played Pokemon since LeafGreen.XBL / PSN / Steam / NNID: BahamutBBob
3DS: 2320 - 6245 - 8788Why would you ask that TC?
That game got me making two more level 100 Charizards, The first game to get me pumped to play that much was Fire Red.Moving to a less corrupted forum,TheZuperHero posted...They had the worst HM bloat of any games in the series,
Oh look its this meme again.
you never need more than roughly the same amount of HMs as any other game.FC: 1977 - 0616 - 0040
Gallant was here(edited 3 days ago)quoteGen 5 was the worst taking remakes into account.
Boring hallway region with no charm, poorly balanced game that only gets love for its mediocre story just because it was at the time above average *(which is to say nonexistence in previous) for the series. Gen 7s story alone blows Gen 5s out of the water in terms of both story and characterization.FC: 1977 - 0616 - 0040
Gallant was hereGallantChaddymn posted...TheZuperHero posted...
They had the worst HM bloat of any games in the series,
Oh look its this meme again.
you never need more than roughly the same amount of HMs as any other game.
I like how you know you needed to caveat that with "roughly." Not to mention that the two new additions were transparent at best attempts to simply railroad your progress. Defog? Seriously?Now Playing: Dragon Quest VI (DS), Darksiders: Warmastered (Wii U), Etrian Odyssey Untold
3DS FC: 4167-4549-4028 NNID: TotalJakeoutTheZuperHero posted...GallantChaddymn posted...
TheZuperHero posted...
They had the worst HM bloat of any games in the series,
Oh look its this meme again.
you never need more than roughly the same amount of HMs as any other game.
I like how you know you needed to caveat that with "roughly."
Excuse me for not wanting to be intellectually dishonest and make an absolute claim when no game ever truly uses the exact same amount of HM's for progression at all comparable points in the game.
Christ, its like people think that HMs are added in every game instead of swapped out for others. there are only 8 badges per game.
Think a little.
Their usage really isn't different than Gen 3.Not to mention that the two new additions were transparent at best attempts to simply railroad your progress. Defog? Seriously?
1. pretending that isn't the entire point of HMs as a whole and that previous ones were any less transparent.
Outside foi SUrf, no HM in the series that impedes your progression ever felt like anything more than s game progress block, and you are lying to yourself if you genuinely think otherwise.
("oh look! a conveniently placed single skinny tree in the one space needed to get to the Gym!)
2. Pretending Fog was such a big obstacle that using the HM was mandatory.
3. pretending it is any different than Flash.
Same regurgitated meme-tier garbage every time.FC: 1977 - 0616 - 0040
Gallant was here(edited 3 days ago)quoteGallantChaddymn posted...TheZuperHero posted...
GallantChaddymn posted...
TheZuperHero posted...
They had the worst HM bloat of any games in the series,
Oh look its this meme again.
you never need more than roughly the same amount of HMs as any other game.
I like how you know you needed to caveat that with "roughly."
Excuse me for not wanting to be intellectually dishonest and make an absolute claim when no game ever truly uses the exact same amount of HM's for progression at all comparable points in the game.
Christ, its like people think that HMs are added in every game instead of swapped out for others. there are only 8 badges per game.
Think a little.
Their usage really isn't different than Gen 3.Not to mention that the two new additions were transparent at best attempts to simply railroad your progress. Defog? Seriously?
1. pretending that isn't the entire point of HMs as a whole and that previous ones were any less transparent.
Outside foi SUrf, no HM in the series that impedes your progression ever felt like anything more than s game progress block, and you are lying to yourself if you genuinely think otherwise.
("oh look! a conveniently placed single skinny tree in the one space needed to get to the Gym!)
2. Pretending Fog was such a big obstacle that using the HM was mandatory.
3. pretending it is any different than Flash.
Same regurgitated meme-tier garbage every time.
So you're saying that, because it was equally dumb in the very first game, that we're supposed to be okay with them just continually adding more of the same garbage? That's certainly an apologist way of looking at it.Now Playing: Dragon Quest VI (DS), Darksiders: Warmastered (Wii U), Etrian Odyssey Untold
3DS FC: 4167-4549-4028 NNID: TotalJakeoutTheZuperHero posted...GallantChaddymn posted...
TheZuperHero posted...
GallantChaddymn posted...
TheZuperHero posted...
They had the worst HM bloat of any games in the series,
Oh look its this meme again.
you never need more than roughly the same amount of HMs as any other game.
I like how you know you needed to caveat that with "roughly."
Excuse me for not wanting to be intellectually dishonest and make an absolute claim when no game ever truly uses the exact same amount of HM's for progression at all comparable points in the game.
Christ, its like people think that HMs are added in every game instead of swapped out for others. there are only 8 badges per game.
Think a little.
Their usage really isn't different than Gen 3.Not to mention that the two new additions were transparent at best attempts to simply railroad your progress. Defog? Seriously?
1. pretending that isn't the entire point of HMs as a whole and that previous ones were any less transparent.
Outside foi SUrf, no HM in the series that impedes your progression ever felt like anything more than s game progress block, and you are lying to yourself if you genuinely think otherwise.
("oh look! a conveniently placed single skinny tree in the one space needed to get to the Gym!)
2. Pretending Fog was such a big obstacle that using the HM was mandatory.
3. pretending it is any different than Flash.
Same regurgitated meme-tier garbage every time.
So you're saying that, because it was equally dumb in the very first game, that we're supposed to be okay with them just continually adding more of the same garbage? That's certainly an apologist way of looking at it.
First off, the complaint used against Gen 4 is the claim hat it had an overabundance of HMs. what i am doing here is demonstrating how that claim is asinine.
All you are doing now is trying to strawman me while you throw every game in the series prior under the bus to save face, and it's incredibly pathetic.
Secondly, IT DIDN'T ADD ANY. There are 8 badges. Like every other game, and a a result 8 HMs.
All that was done was swap out old ones for new ones.
HM system as a hole was lame, but to claim it is a sleight against gen 4 specifically let alone only, or to even claim that it handled them worse than previous gens is ridiculous.FC: 1977 - 0616 - 0040
Gallant was here(edited 3 days ago)quotetruthfully I feel hm's should make a return but as long as they remove the cannot forget restriction except for surf while surfing(only reason for cannot forget how to surf while surfing is you would die or have to wash up on some beach) and maybe buff the weaker hm moves like cut by buffing its damage or give them a effect. Also defog was great hm for online(not so much for offline battles and still had more use than whirlpool as hm) to have with since a good portion of pokemon online battles have good chance of having a trap setter. I think if i remember correctly max hm's needed at same time in dia/pearl/plat was 5 surf/waterfall/flash/rock smash/strength.GallantChaddymn posted...First off, the complaint used against Gen 4 is the claim hat it had an overabundance of HMs. what i am doing here is demonstrating how that claim is asinine.
All you are doing now is trying to strawman me while you throw every game in the series prior under the bus to save face, and it's incredibly pathetic.
Secondly, IT DIDN'T ADD ANY. There are 8 badges. Like every other game, and a a result 8 HMs.
All that was done was swap out old ones for new ones.
HM system as a hole was lame, but to claim it is a sleight against gen 4 specifically let alone only, or to even claim that it handled them worse than previous gens is ridiculous.
D/P required more HMs while traversing individual areas (read: Mt. Coronet) than any game prior. That is the common complaint and it is a truth of the game. And regardless of whether it added any, it did make changes that did little to improve the system and ended up just being a clear demonstration of the problems with the existing systems. No other generation made a Flash equivalent, just Gen IV. No other Gen built a dungeon entirely around having an entire Pokemon's moveslots worth of HMs at one time. That's why Gen IV gets the flack. Don't pretend that just because it didn't bother you it isn't a problem or a design flaw.Now Playing: Dragon Quest VI (DS), Darksiders: Warmastered (Wii U), Etrian Odyssey Untold
3DS FC: 4167-4549-4028 NNID: TotalJakeoutTheZuperHero posted...GallantChaddymn posted...
First off, the complaint used against Gen 4 is the claim hat it had an overabundance of HMs. what i am doing here is demonstrating how that claim is asinine.
All you are doing now is trying to strawman me while you throw every game in the series prior under the bus to save face, and it's incredibly pathetic.
Secondly, IT DIDN'T ADD ANY. There are 8 badges. Like every other game, and a a result 8 HMs.
All that was done was swap out old ones for new ones.
HM system as a hole was lame, but to claim it is a sleight against gen 4 specifically let alone only, or to even claim that it handled them worse than previous gens is ridiculous.
D/P required more HMs while traversing individual areas (read: Mt. Coronet) than any game prior. That is the common complaint and it is a truth of the game.
Was wondering which fool would set off that trap card.
No, this is also a myth. Mt Coronet never requires you have more than 2 HMs for any given pass of the mountain, which is in line with previous games, and the pass that requires 2 is a late game dungeon. All previous passes require 1.
People n only misconstrue Mt coronet by citing optional uses of waterfall and defog, but also pretend Mt coronet is a single dungeon when in reality it is multiple separate ones that share a name by virtue of being in the same area.
In contrast, gens two and three requuuired you clog 3 or your water typed 4 moveslots with HMs. In gen 2s case being f***ing whirlpool.And regardless of whether it added any, it did make changes that did little to improve the system and ended up just being a clear demonstration of the problems with the existing systems. No other generation made a Flash equivalent, just Gen IV.
It did the very opposite. Not only is gen 4s selection of HMs far better standalone movewise compare to past gens, but as stated before you don't need as many on hand as gens past. Saying "lol . Other game introduced a flash variant" is such a pointless remark. So what? What point does this observation serve? Having a flash variant doesn't make the game worse, especially if said variant is much more optional and is a better move than its predecessor.No other Gen built a dungeon entirely around having an entire Pokemon's moveslots worth of HMs at one time.
As I have already gone on length on, this is a myth. And ironically, what you described more acurately describes gens before gen 4
That's why Gen IV gets the flack. Don't pretend that just because it didn't bother you it isn't a problem or a design flaw.
So what you are saying is it gets flack do to ignorance, meming and the perpetuation of misinformation? Glad we agree.FC: 1977 - 0616 - 0040
Gallant was here(edited 3 days ago)quoteGallantChaddymn posted...Was wondering which fool would set off that trap card.
No, this is also a myth. Mt Coronet never requires you have more than 2 HMs for any given pass of the mountain, which is in line with previous games, and the pass that requires 2 is a late game dungeon. All previous passes require 1.
People n only misconstrue Mt coronet by citing optional uses of waterfall and defog, but also pretend Mt coronet is a single dungeon when in reality it is multiple separate ones that share a name by virtue of being in the same area.
I cede that the Mt. Coronet thing may be overblown, but it is still a clunky dungeon design and if you ever want to reexplore it (for items you miss, backtracking, etc) if you don't remember EXACTLY which HMs you need you are going to need to bring them all.
GallantChaddymn posted...Saying "lol . Other game introduced a flash variant" is such a pointless remark. So what? What point does this observation serve? Having a flash variant doesn't make the game worse, especially if said variant is much more optional and is a better move than its predecessor.
Optional HMs do little to show the system's value, but rather bog it down with unnecessary fluff that just act as go to examples of why the system didn't work. People always railed on Flash for being useless and dumb. So there is no value in repeating the mistakes of the past and mimicking past mistakes. Sequels need to be iterative and refined, not rehash old elements for the sake of it. This ties in with you mentioning it being worse in earlier Gens. Even if that were true, which I don't believe to be the case, by the FOURTH sequel in a series games should stop illustrating the same problems as their forebears and fix problems instead of repeating them over and over. Not to mention that this was only one of my points against D/P, not my entire argument. These problems compound with one another to add up to a worse product.Now Playing: Dragon Quest VI (DS), Darksiders: Warmastered (Wii U), Etrian Odyssey Untold
3DS FC: 4167-4549-4028 NNID: TotalJakeoutTheZuperHero posted...I cede that the Mt. Coronet thing may be overblown, but it is still a clunky dungeon design and if you ever want to reexplore it (for items you miss, backtracking, etc) if you don't remember EXACTLY which HMs you need you are going to need to bring them all.
Now you are just lying to yourself.
Like is said before, Mt. coronet is not one Dungeon, but several separate ones that share a name.
any hidden items you are looking for would only require 1 given HM in a specific area where you need said HM. You aren't gonna haul em all to explore roughly 4 different dungeons, you are gonna bring the 1 or 2 to explore that one area.
Again, stop looking at Mr Coronet as 1 dungeon. it really isn't one. Not at all.
Most of its paths don't even inter-connect in any way, and the ones that do require you find a secret passage way that leads to said interconnections.
TheZuperHero posted...Optional HMs do little to show the system's value, but rather bog it down with unnecessary fluff that just act as go to examples of why the system didn't work. People always railed on Flash for being useless and dumb. So there is no value in repeating the mistakes of the past and mimicking past mistakes.
Except the issue was the HM system as a whole. It holds little value besides being a road block to impede your progress and the sense of gaining a new means of interacting with the world and little else.
What this complaint amounts to is essentially arbitrarily docking Gen 4 points for not doing what would only be done 3 generations later with the removal of HMs all together, and that is quite frankly stupid and blatantly a display of bias.
If you admit that it is an issue in all the games that had em, then you can't just hold Gen 4 more accountable for Hms than others for no real reason. That's stupid.
Objectively speaking, DPPT improved the HM system by making the moves you got better (Rock Climb is a great move Defog is better than Flash) and making them less obligatory and spreading them about amount more pokemon so you don't end up with an unintentional HM slave. . Defog was an improvement over Flash, even if it ultimately falls prey to issues that come with the HM system as a whole,because while Flash was optional, Darkness was in cases enough of an obstacle to justify its use, while Defog was more or less a luxury do to Fog being such a non-obstacle. Quite, the bigger obstacle with Fog was the evasion increase its field effect caused as opposed to the overworld effect itself, and at this point in time, you undoubtedly have an Aerial ace user and the route is loaded with Black belt trainers with fighting pokemon, most of which are Machoke with No Guard, making the Field effect moot.
You are essentially trying to blame the whole of gen 4 for "not being a good enough improvement for your conveniently contrived for this game in particular" standards.
Gen 4, despite retaining the HM system, went to many lengths to make it less obnoxious, and you are essentially handwaving it on the grounds that "it isn't good enough".
What a piece of work.Not to mention that this was only one of my points against D/P, not my entire argument. These problems compound with one another to add up to a worse product.
Please do share.FC: 1977 - 0616 - 0040
Gallant was here(edited 3 days ago)quoteThey are okay, but definitely in the lower end of the series. D/P are the absolute worst mainline games, with ORAS and BW/BW2 also not far behind. They are all some of the most forgettable RPGs I've ever played, even for Pokemon, and I probably won't ever go back and replay any of them.
Gens 1-3 were actually fairly good at the time, with the GC games being the best actual RPGs in the series overall. S/M was an improvement, but still got a lot wrong. For current RPGs, these are some of the worst examples of anything other than turn-based battles in the industry, but Pokemon alone still sells them regardless.
I'm hoping the Switch games will fix this, and finally update the series to current RPG standards, especially on the story/world/characters/design front outside of combat.pichuscute0 posted...D/P are the absolute worst mainline games
Stopped reading there. epic meme
If you honestly believe D/P are worse than R/S, then you legitimately have something wrong with you.(edited 3 days ago)quoteGeneraLight posted...pichuscute0 posted...
D/P are the absolute worst mainline games
Stopped reading there. epic meme
If you honestly believe D/P are worse than R/S, then you have something wrong with you.
Then you're obviously a dick. Because I do prefer R/S. A lot.(edited 3 days ago)quoteBad taste seems prevalent with the people on this board. Oh well. Not everyone can have good taste.(edited 3 days ago)quoteGallantChaddymn posted...You are essentially trying to blame the whole of gen 4 for "not being a good enough improvement for your conveniently contrived for this game in particular" standards.
Gen 4, despite retaining the HM system, went to many lengths to make it less obnoxious, and you are essentially handwaving it on the grounds that "it isn't good enough".
What a piece of work.
No, I'm saying it's one of many problems I had with the games. But before you go screaming "bias" stop and think about how you cherry picked one of my points and proceeded to argue about it for paragraphs upon paragraphs of text and start to think that maybe this defensiveness may be emblematic of the very thing you're accusing me of.Now Playing: Dragon Quest VI (DS), Darksiders: Warmastered (Wii U), Etrian Odyssey Untold
3DS FC: 4167-4549-4028 NNID: TotalJakeoutGeneraLight posted...Bad taste seems prevalent with the people on this board. Oh well. Not everyone can have good taste.
Its a damn opinion man.
It must be so bad that someone prefers a different game to another. lmaoI am FrankieInc's alt, don't mind me.
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