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Because now they're all aware that they need to introduce their shitty business practices AFTER the game has launched and hype has had a chance to die down. Like Street Fighter and the in-game ads, or RDR2 terrible pricing: https://www.reddit.com/r/reddeadredemption/comments/a65coj/micahtransactions_are_here_and_they_are_garbage/
Fallout 76 too because people have found through datamining that they plan on selling lootboxes (lunchboxes). Battlefront was made an example of by the community and apparently the only lesson developers learned was to keep whatever shitty scam they have planned hidden during launch so as not to become a distraction. THEN after the launch window has passed is when it's time to break out the nickle & diming bullcrap. Any other recent examples of changing the game for the worse by introducing this kind of stuff after launch? |
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Orestes417 posted...
CoD was doing that shit before Battlefront 2 thought about existing Yeah but I'm noticing a distinctive shift with more and more developers doing it and I think it's a direct result of the Battlefront backlash. Maybe they're saying CoD has it figured out, let's do what they're doing! Like that LotR game that got a lot of shit for its lootboxes. There's no doubt in my mind that if that game launched today it'd simply not have them at launch and then add them to the game 2 weeks or a month afterwards. |
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Why do people continue to be surprised at stuff like this. Why.
The goal of for-profit companies is to what. Make money. THAT'S IT. This isn't Goodwill or The Salvation Army. They're going to do whatever they feel like they can do to maximize their revenue that's 1) Within the law and 2) Within the reasonable expectations of what customers will be ok with buying. And even though a lot of internet lunatics would like to believe that it's up to them what is "right" or not in terms of business, it's not. It's up to the customer base AS A WHOLE to tell them "Yes this is acceptable and we will pay for it" or "No that is unreasonable and not worth my money." And I'm going to wager you know the 1 way in which companies are told either of those 2 things. You're allowed to individually like or not like business practices. Fine. Whatever. But seriously stop acting as if companies are wrong for testing the waters on new streams of revenue. That is their responsibility as a company. And the bigger the company gets, the more those decisions are going to be made. Get over it already. |
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The bait and switch bullshit needs to be shut down in the legal sense. Especially if it's something they used as a marketing point to get you to buy the game in the first place, as per BO3 and it's retroactive inclusion of guns in lootboxes.
Please keep talking so we can all pretend that our problems are just in our heads.
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GoIrish80 posted...
Why do people continue to be surprised at stuff like this. Why. Sorry if you got the impression that I'm surprised by this. I'm just bringing it up because no one seems to be talking about it and I wanted to talk about it. I think it is wrong because it falls under bait and switch. Feel to discuss if you want but don't tell people to "get over it" just because you're not mature enough to have a real conversation. |
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pothocket posted...
GoIrish80 posted...Why do people continue to be surprised at stuff like this. Why. But he's right though. Microtransactions are not new. People love them, or else they wouldn't be in the game. Yell at gamers for ruining gaming. Publishers are drug dealers providing the service.
Acts 2:38.
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don't support shitty companies.
it's pretty simple. people look at individual games instead of focusing on who's actually behind them.. i mean come on. also, those RDR2 mtx examples are clearly wrong. it was supposed to be rail bonds xd |
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pothocket posted...
GoIrish80 posted...Why do people continue to be surprised at stuff like this. Why. You're right...."no one" talks about it. This stuff never gets brought up on message boards. Give me a break. I gave you the mature/real world conversation response, and you're not interested in hearing it. Good luck to you. |
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AsucaHayashi posted...
don't support shitty companies. Right, that's easy to say but the point is they're hiding how shitty they are until well after launch. It's no longer a case of simply saying "no-preorders" because we're talking about stuff being introduced weeks or even months afterwards. So no, it's not "pretty simple" anymore. The dynamics are changing |
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GoIrish80 posted...
You're right...."no one" talks about it. This stuff never gets brought up on message boards. Give me a break. Are you even aware of what I'm trying to talk about in this topic? GoIrish80 posted... I gave you the mature/real world conversation response LOL maybe if you're 12. |
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Yes shitty people will always exist to exploit others. Is it shit? Of course. What can we do? Nothing....these slimeballs know exactly what they are doing and a certain segment of the video game community will always fall for it. Until human behavior is regulated somehow (lol) nothing will ever change.
What is freedom?
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actually battlefront just copied black desert in scumminess. Also people defending it when it happened. It's a sad day when ppl defend EA though. Gaming has gone unregulated for far too long.
DarkZV2Beta -No, because PS2 was garbage, and is the primary cause of the collapse of the Japanese game market in the mid 2000s. https://imgur.com/FMxcdHw
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SinisterSlay posted...
The developers had nothing to do with it. It's all the publishers fault. Don't mix the two up. I don't buy that. End of the day there's always a choice. The developers made the choice to go along with it. So no they don't get a free pass on that.
Please keep talking so we can all pretend that our problems are just in our heads.
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Orestes417 posted...
SinisterSlay posted...The developers had nothing to do with it. It's all the publishers fault. Don't mix the two up. Why would any developer want to turn their 5 years of blood, sweat and unpaid overtime into something they wouldn't be proud of? It's obvious the devs sent in without the shit, publisher releases because of deadline, other developers are hired or brought in to add the shit after release.
He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother Silence
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You'd have to ask them. You only get to play the "I didn't realize what'd happen" card once. Virtually all of these devs have gone well past that, so to hell with giving them a pass. They came to a crossroads with integrity on one side and employment on the other and they didn't choose integrity. Now they can lie in their beds. Not to mention most of the upper level management of these developers are also execs in the publishers.
Please keep talking so we can all pretend that our problems are just in our heads.
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pothocket posted...
So no, it's not "pretty simple" anymore. The dynamics are changing not to my recollection. SF5: was meant to get rid of "editions" in favor of ongoing DLC paid through in-game currency or real money(and they still ended up with a new "edition"). tbh i don't even know why the ad debacle was the breaking point in a game that was already being run with a shitty business model. RDR2 online: from the makers of GTA online....... fallout 76: from the same company that tried to introduce paid mods publishers and devs aren't suddenly going to turn into CDPR just because they came out with a good game regardless of how long it has been out. i mean how long before beth introduced paid mods in skyrim? |
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AsucaHayashi posted...
fallout 76: from the same company that tried to introduce paid mods Actually fo4 and skyrim have paid mods. They just have said in their website that it's not paid mods because the mods they have are curated and have to be original unlike the first try on steam where ppl just ransacked the nexus.
DarkZV2Beta -No, because PS2 was garbage, and is the primary cause of the collapse of the Japanese game market in the mid 2000s. https://imgur.com/FMxcdHw
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oh right, forgot about the creation club. never paid it any attention and probably never will.
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Orestes417 posted...
You'd have to ask them. You only get to play the "I didn't realize what'd happen" card once. Virtually all of these devs have gone well past that, so to hell with giving them a pass. They came to a crossroads with integrity on one side and employment on the other and they didn't choose integrity. Now they can lie in their beds. Not to mention most of the upper level management of these developers are also execs in the publishers. Plus they are the ones who originally designed these systems. It was game designers who devised the systems like SWBF2 lootboxes or GTAO/RDO microtransactions and the in-game economies around them. Lead Designers/Directors get revenue sharing too so they profit from them as well.
Rest in peace, Stan Lee
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johnny_pay posted...
SFV isnt the first game to have ads in it, it was attempted to put ads in deus ex human revolution but it didnt last long. Hell ads in games go back a lot further than that. R6 Vegas had them, as well as several PSX era games.
Please keep talking so we can all pretend that our problems are just in our heads.
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Orestes417 posted...
I don't buy that. End of the day there's always a choice. The developers made the choice to go along with it. So no they don't get a free pass on that. To be fair, the games industry is very competitive, and if they didn't make that choice, there'd be some intern who would be glad to take half their pay and go along with it, and they have families to feed.
Asus P8Z68-V LE | Core i7 2600K | 8GB G.Skill Ripjaws DDR3 | EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB
PS3 | PS2 | PSP| Wii-U | 3DS | DS | X-Box 360 | X-Box | NES |
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GoIrish80 posted...
But seriously stop acting as if companies are wrong So . . in your world, corporations can do or say whatever they want, but the rest of us had better keep our mouths shut about it, because . . . uh . . . why ?
Corsair 550D/ Gigabyte Z170X Gaming3 / Vengeance 16GB DDR4 2666 / i-5 6600k / MSI Twin Frozr VI 6GB GTX 1060 /
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I'm so relieved Strauss Zelnick will be able to afford gold-plated toilets in his summer/winter homes. I was gonna lose sleep over him having to choose between hiring a personal ball washer recommended by Lewis Black, or having to downsize some studio teams.
A pc's brain is the cpu, its heart is the motherboard, its stomach is the hard drive, and its anus is the user.
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Unpopular opinion:
Micro transactions themselves aren't the issue, they have existed for years and years and some games handle them extremely well, because they are either fair, or don't have a direct impact on actual gameplay (Warframe, Path of Exile to name a few). It becomes a problem when actual gameplay is either stunted in order to get people to fork over money for them. One such example could be that certain high tier items are locked inside of them, that progression is purposely slowed in order to have you pay to unlock things faster, or (which is the absolute worst offender) buy things that you can only get through actually spending money and those things (weapons/armor/etc) are more powerful than anything you could otherwise obtain in the game. MTs are here to stay, and people can spend their money on whatever they like. Lootboxes will always be predatory, because you don't have a 100% chance to get what you want, rather an assortment of items, which is obviously meant to get you spending more and more till you get what you are after. However, being able to to buy what you want directly (Warframe does this extremely well) is much more fair and I have no issues with. There is no gambling, no RNG, no random chance to get or not get something. You get what you see. It can be done, and it can be done well. However, companies like EA, Activision/Blizzard/ UbiSoft only care about one thing: How much money they make at the bottom of the page, how that money is made doesn't matter, aslong as the shareholders are happy.
XboX GT/Steam/Wii-U - Nazanir
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I've got zero issue with Blizzard's lootboxes. They're purely cosmetic frippery that's pretty easily earned through gameplay. It's when you cross into gameplay altering content being locked behind them and ridiculous grinds required to get them free that it moves into bullshit territory. BO3 was a good example of that.
Please keep talking so we can all pretend that our problems are just in our heads.
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Orestes417 posted...
johnny_pay posted...SFV isnt the first game to have ads in it, it was attempted to put ads in deus ex human revolution but it didnt last long. I can remember Coke ads being in that futuristic Battlefield years ago. Players lost their shit 'cos it totally ruined immersion. I think there was spyware bundled in with it too. RDR2 having mirco-transactions isn't surprising. Rockstar made a mint off GTAV, and very early on in RDR2's development they told investors they'd follow the same model in RDR2. Waiting until a month or so after release is very deceptive though. I guess buyers will just have to be more wary. The fact businesses are adopting such practices rather than removing micro-transactions clearly indicates they are here to stay.
Our greatest glory is not in never trolling; but in rising every time we troll - Confucius, 0 AD.
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LazyyAmerican posted...
Look kid...its business. Not good or evil...black and white. People gotta make that bread to bring home to their families. As long as people keep paying we will keep providing. It's greed. Older games didn't have that shit.
To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize - Voltaire
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Just like they learned their lesson from SimCity for a while back in the day, it's very naive to think they stop because of one game getting bad press, because there are so many games that pull nasty shit and do very well for themselves.
Geforce GTX whatever, i7 something or rather, some sticks of ram, an SSD and a Hard Drive with stuff on it.
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LazyyAmerican posted...
Look kid...its business. Not good or evil...black and white. People gotta make that bread to bring home to their families. As long as people keep paying we will keep providing. nope, there is business and there is extortion good sir. Now adays, all business think they have the right to extort their customers and call it just good business. However when the customers boycott your product and move on to the company that does as they want. You will either die with the past, or evolve with the future. erego, enjoy your scam while it lasts because its already on its way out.
I6700K - ZOTAC GTX1080 - 16 GBDDR4 RAM- NU8000 49 Inch + LG C8 OLED55
"You'd best start believing in ghost stories Miss Turner. You're in one!" |
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Orestes417 posted...
Yeah, sucks to be a grunt on the ground. Doesn't excuse the developers in the slightest though. I think it does...they should abandon their secure jobs in a very competitive industry with lots of turnover because of a questionable decision from the publisher? I mean, I don't condone this crap, but I can understand the position they would be in and I could understand them not wanting to put their families on the street. Blame the publishers for their excessive control, blame the consumers for buying into this crap, but don't blame the people just doing their jobs. If people didn't buy into this DLC/Microtransaction/lootbox crap, they wouldn't keep exploiting it.
Asus P8Z68-V LE | Core i7 2600K | 8GB G.Skill Ripjaws DDR3 | EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB
PS3 | PS2 | PSP| Wii-U | 3DS | DS | X-Box 360 | X-Box | NES |
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I stopped buying EA, Activision , Ubisoft, 2K, and Capcom is about to make that list, a long time ago.
The only thing these companies understand is money. Its time to stop bitching and time to stop buying if you want any thing done. I'm perfectly fine with playing Indies and Retro games now a days so they aint hurting my feelings none If they dont want to listen and go down in flames well then nothing of value was lost in my book. PSN - ArkonBlade XBL - The Wolf Shadow STEAM - ArkonBlade |
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LazyyAmerican posted...
Look kid...its business. Not good or evil...black and white. People gotta make that bread to bring home to their families. As long as people keep paying we will keep providing. we got a winner. When the hell did gamers start thinking that companies were their friend. |
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LazyyAmerican posted...
Look kid...its business. Not good or evil...black and white. People gotta make that bread to bring home to their families. As long as people keep paying we will keep providing. Completely disagree. The "It's a business it's meant to make money" is so utterly trite. Let's say "I'm a human, I have to eat to survive" as a justification for eating endangered species. There's other ways to survive. There are other ways to make money. You don't need to be a coniving scum bucket to make money. There are plenty of games that release without MTs that make their money back. It's basic business, you budget your project against how many you expect to realistically sell and you make a profit. What games companies are saying by necessitating these micro transactions and loot boxes and sponsorships and season passes and DLC and so on is that they have no idea how to realistically manage a project. If you get to the point where you need to sell 10 million copies of something in order to break even, you've messed up royally.
"Everything popular is wrong." - Oscar Wilde
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SpaceMarineZack posted...
LazyyAmerican posted...Look kid...its business. Not good or evil...black and white. People gotta make that bread to bring home to their families. As long as people keep paying we will keep providing. I was just trying to get people talking about how developers are now doing bait and switch to avoid negative backlash during their launch window. I didn't mean for it to turn into a 'DLC BAD' circlejerk |
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pothocket posted...
are now doing bait and switch to avoid negative backlash during their launch window Some developers were already doing similar things. Shadow of War for example back loaded the worst of the grind so reviewers would say "Sure, it is a little grindy, but it's not THAT bad." because they likely wouldn't get to the *awful* grind during their review period.
"Everything popular is wrong." - Oscar Wilde
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Dragon Nexus posted...
If you get to the point where you need to sell 10 million copies of something in order to break even, you've messed up royally. I don't think it's even about breaking even for larger studios or keeping developer families fed, since unless they're indie, they've already been paid and generally don't get royalties/bonuses for their work post-development (like what Bethesda did for Obsidian in NV by tying bonus pay to a metacritic score). It's about constant growth of the company's value. If they're making less money than the last year, even if they're still making immense profits, then their value is going down. Microtransactions have circumvented the purely sales number related value that's attached to the company.
A pc's brain is the cpu, its heart is the motherboard, its stomach is the hard drive, and its anus is the user.
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Oh look, another thread of you people whining/bitching about publishers screwing you over with microtransactions and lootboxes, yet you'll continue to buy their garbage games.
I don't have these issues, because I don't play trash. Maybe stop playing trash and you'll be happier too? Personally, I wish you would all shut up about EA, Bethesda, Activision, Ubisoft, Capcom, Rockstar, Square Enix, etc. So much crying in every forum/site/YouTube video by idiots who lack self control to know a bad game when they see it. These companies all release the same AAA junk every year. Don't preorder or support that junk and I guarantee those brown streaks in your panties will go away.
Z370 | i7 8700 | Cryorig M9i | EVGA GTX 1080ti | EVGA GS 650w | 16GB DDR4 | WDB 3TB |500GB SSD | Toshiba 500GB | Challenger S | VS XG2703-GS | LG 27UD68 |
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Ultimate_Noob posted...
It's about constant growth of the company's value. If they're making less money than the last year, even if they're still making immense profits, then their value is going down. Microtransactions have circumvented the purely sales number related value that's attached to the company. Absolutely. Which is why the triple A industry is heading towards a crash. Infinite growth is an impossibility, but that's something stock holders don't seem to understand. The company made $1 billion this year, it needs to make $1.3 billion next year. Oh dear, it only made $1.2 billion? Looks like the stock value of the company is going to take a hit since profits weren't as high as expected. So the microtransaction and "Live Services" model takes over, as you say, but gamers only have so much time and money to dedicate to a product. If all games are live services, how can we possibly support them all? I already have a job, thanks. So when that bubble bursts, what the heck is the industry going to do to get those MT and loot box profits back? How on Earth do you fill a $500,000 a year void from loot boxes alone if loot boxes aren't allowed to exist any more?
"Everything popular is wrong." - Oscar Wilde
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Sir_Haxor posted...
Personally, I wish you would all shut up about EA, Bethesda, Activision, Ubisoft, Capcom, Rockstar, Square Enix, etc. People will shut up about the crap things they do when they stop doing crap things. Also, love the conflicting advice. Sir_Haxor posted... Oh look, another thread of you people whining/b****ing about publishers screwing you over with microtransactions and lootboxes, yet you'll continue to buy their garbage games. Sir_Haxor posted... So much crying in every forum/site/YouTube video by idiots who lack self control to know a bad game when they see it. So you'll complain about people not being smart enough to avoid stuff they don't like, wishing people would stop whining about it, but then go into a topic you know you won't like and whine about it.
"Everything popular is wrong." - Oscar Wilde
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JKatarn posted...
Orestes417 posted...Yeah, sucks to be a grunt on the ground. Doesn't excuse the developers in the slightest though. Like I said, anyone expecting any unorganized heterogeneous group to do anything even remotely coordinated en masse is deep in fantasy land. It will NEVER happen. You want to stop this shit, the buck starts and stops at the developers. And we could have a real long, and dark, discussion of the hundreds of thousands of times "just doing my job" has been shot down as any sort of an excuse for actions in the past if you really wanted to.
Please keep talking so we can all pretend that our problems are just in our heads.
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- Boards
- PC
- Looks like developers learned their lesson from Battlefront 2
Dragon Nexus posted...People will shut up about the crap things they do when they stop doing crap things.
Which won't happen because they're too busy making money off the same people crying in the first place
You're throwing a tantrum because you lack self control to not buy shitty games that are made by people you know consistently do shitty things.
YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FORbut then go into a topic you know you won't like and whine about it.
In what way does the topic title express more whining about microtransactions and lootboxes? If anything, it's worded to be the exact opposite and that's if you go in with a mindset of prior knowledge to what TC meant by 'lesson'.
Which you would only have if you actually payed attention to the BF2 whining. To normal people like me, this topic could have referred to anything.Z370 | i7 8700 | Cryorig M9i | EVGA GTX 1080ti | EVGA GS 650w | 16GB DDR4 | WDB 3TB |500GB SSD | Toshiba 500GB | Challenger S | VS XG2703-GS | LG 27UD68 |Orestes417 posted...Like I said, anyone expecting any unorganized heterogeneous group to do anything even remotely coordinated en masse is deep in fantasy land. It will NEVER happen. You want to stop this shit, the buck starts and stops at the developers.
And we could have a real long, and dark, discussion of the hundreds of thousands of times "just doing my job" has been shot down as any sort of an excuse for actions in the past if you really wanted to.
No, it starts and stops at the Publishers noticing people buying this crap and mandating that it's included. As long as the mouth-breathing masses are buying into this ecosystem, publishers are going to mandate that dev studios include this, and if devs want to keep working and receiving publisher funding, they will have to.Asus P8Z68-V LE | Core i7 2600K | 8GB G.Skill Ripjaws DDR3 | EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB
PS3 | PS2 | PSP| Wii-U | 3DS | DS | X-Box 360 | X-Box | NESremember guys. jk calls them mouth breathers like a pubbie but then expects them to do anything.DarkZV2Beta -No, because PS2 was garbage, and is the primary cause of the collapse of the Japanese game market in the mid 2000s. https://imgur.com/FMxcdHwSir_Haxor posted...To normal people like me
You're not normal, dude.
JKatarn posted...No, it starts and stops at the Publishers noticing people buying this crap and mandating that it's included. As long as the mouth-breathing masses are buying into this ecosystem, publishers are going to mandate that dev studios include this, and if devs want to keep working and receiving publisher funding, they will have to.
Definitely this. Blaming the developers is insane, they often don't choose to put these systems into their games. Example, Deus Ex. They were told last minute to put microtransactions into their game because Square Enix has this crazy idea in their heads that just making a game and shipping it out and making money off it is a dying medium and that games need MTs and loot boxes and expansions and so on.
The publisher dictates what the monetisation of a game will have. And as said before, developers who don't want to do it just get fired and replaced. It'll happen regardless."Everything popular is wrong." - Oscar WildeRemember kids, any business can use any scumbag tactic against you and it's your fault for not organizing to not buy the product. Oh and it's also your fault for not inventing a time machine to go back and stop yourself from buying products whose terms changed after the fact too. In fact, It's your fault for not forsaking the modern world and going to live on an Amish commune.Please keep talking so we can all pretend that our problems are just in our heads.Orestes417 posted...Remember kids, any business can use any scumbag tactic against you and it's your fault for not organizing to not buy the product. Oh and it's also your fault for not inventing a time machine to go back and stop yourself from buying products whose terms changed after the fact too. In fact, It's your fault for not forsaking the modern world and going to live on an Amish commune.
That was my takeaway as well."Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist."- GCIt's no different than GTAV, the only difference is GTAV has a lot more content to start with. RDR2 is best played as a single player game, it is amazing. The multiplayer however is forgettable. To be fair it's only "beta" but I didn't buy it for multiplayer. I bought it for the single player just like GTAV.Dragon Nexus posted...You're not normal, dude.
I guess "normal" is complaining about microtransaction infested games released by publishers known to make microtransaction infested games? Or did you go in expecting them to suddenly change their minds and not be scumbags at the last minute lol.
Again, how come I don't have this issue with these games? Why do I know better than to buy these turds the moment they're up for preorder?
Orestes417 posted...Remember kids, any business can use any scumbag tactic against you and it's your fault for not organizing to not buy the product. Oh and it's also your fault for not inventing a time machine to go back and stop yourself from buying products whose terms changed after the fact too. In fact, It's your fault for not forsaking the modern world and going to live on an Amish commune.
Did you not expect Rockstar to implement microtransactions in RDR2 after GTAO? Even when they released statements claiming a similar mode was coming to the game before it released?
https://gamerant.com/red-dead-redemption-2-more-microtransactions-gta-5/
https://www.vgr.com/take-two-boss-red-dead-online-battle-royale/
At what point are you guys going to hold yourselves accountable for buying this junk? If you think not buying garbage video games is equivalent to shutting yourself out of the modern world, have at it.
If anything, you've already begun to lock yourself out as "games as a service" is more profitable and mainstream than the former model. You're just spitting in the wind and pouting when it flies back in your face lmaoZ370 | i7 8700 | Cryorig M9i | EVGA GTX 1080ti | EVGA GS 650w | 16GB DDR4 | WDB 3TB |500GB SSD | Toshiba 500GB | Challenger S | VS XG2703-GS | LG 27UD68 |Sir_Haxor posted...At what point are you guys going to hold yourselves accountable for buying this junk? If you think not buying garbage video games is equivalent to shutting yourself out of the modern world, have at it.
It's cute that you think "personal accountability" matters. Really it is. Doesn't make a fucking bit of difference that an individual didn't buy it. Or a thousand individuals. Or a hundred thousand. The accountability for the business practices belongs with those performing them, specifically the publishers and developers.Please keep talking so we can all pretend that our problems are just in our heads.Sir_Haxor posted...At what point are you guys going to hold yourselves accountable for buying this junk?
See, this is the issue. You somehow have this idea that if we're complaining about it, we must have also bought the game. Are you somehow incapable of understanding that? Do you somehow not realise that a lot of us complain because we'd *like* to buy and play these games but don't because microtransactions almost always upset the game balance and make it grindy as hell.
I looked forward to Shadow of War until I learned about the loot boxes. Same with DMC5. Same with Assassins Creed. Same with every game with MTs or loot boxes in them. I *want* to play these games but I won't buy them if they have MTs or loot boxes in them.
So your assumption that we're all blithering morong buying all of these games and then whining that they have microtransactions despite knowing in advance they would is wildly off base."Everything popular is wrong." - Oscar WildeDragon Nexus posted...Sir_Haxor posted...
At what point are you guys going to hold yourselves accountable for buying this junk?
See, this is the issue. You somehow have this idea that if we're complaining about it, we must have also bought the game. Are you somehow incapable of understanding that? Do you somehow not realise that a lot of us complain because we'd *like* to buy and play these games but don't because microtransactions almost always upset the game balance and make it grindy as hell.
I looked forward to Shadow of War until I learned about the loot boxes. Same with DMC5. Same with Assassins Creed. Same with every game with MTs or loot boxes in them. I *want* to play these games but I won't buy them if they have MTs or loot boxes in them.
So your assumption that we're all blithering morong buying all of these games and then whining that they have microtransactions despite knowing in advance they would is wildly off base.
I buy the games if they review well and the microtransactions are just neutral (or worsen the experience) but never the microtransactions themselves. Proper DLC is fine.Pokemon X FC 4940-6875-7569LazyyAmerican posted...Look kid...its business. Not good or evil...black and white. People gotta make that bread to bring home to their families. As long as people keep paying we will keep providing.
Look "kid", if you think what they are doing isn't evil, then you don't know what good and evil are, greed is often considered the root of all evil for a reason, no religion on this planet would make the claim you just made with a straight face, and if your looking at it from a athiestic standpoint, then you would be relying on a materialistic world view, which views concepts like good and evil as pointless.
TL;DR what they are doing is by the literal definition of the word, evil, don't like it fine, but don't try to make the claim that it's "neutral", because no theologian would agree with you.
As for lootboxes itself, personally i just see it as one more thing that will eventually kill the gaming industry.One who does not learn from his mistakes, is doomed to repeat them.These companies make enough without loot-boxes. The excuse that they never make money unless its on DLC and MTX is all bullshit. If they are rolling these out AFTER launch for these games, then literally every dollar made from the MTX they put out after launch window goes straight into the pockets of the CEOs at the tippy top who forced the publisher to do this to maximize profits.
These companies arent going to shit because they're not making enough money. Theyre going to shit because if they are not making money at a faster rate, year to year, then they are ''breaking even''. Profits have to continue to expand even if by force (as in reduce wages, cut budgets to games, anything that doesnt affect the top CEOs basically). So we end up having all the money continuously going into top guys pockets, and nothing goes into hiring better talent, building a new engine, or licensing a new engine to integrate with yours, and the games begin to stagnate--we have been seeing this repeatedly over the last few years with almost every AAA game.
People are starting to realize we actually CAN make a difference with companies buckling under the pressure, and dropping unheard of 40-50% discounts just mere weeks after release--and people STILL arent buying the shit. I think we're on the cusp of the AAA collapse, and hopefully we can get this shit turned around. These money grubbing douche bags came into this industry because they saw the potential for big money, and they have infected our culture with bad business and weak ethics combined with schemes to prey on peoples psychological weaknesses...shit is real son, this shit is real.ASUS B-150 Gaming MoBo| Intel CORE i5 6500k @ 3.5GHz | 32GB DDR4 | 2TB HDD | 600w PSU | nVidia GTX 1080Ti 11GB GDDR5-XN3xtG3nGam3r posted...These companies make enough without loot-boxes. The excuse that they never make money unless its on DLC and MTX is all bullshit. If they are rolling these out AFTER launch for these games, then literally every dollar made from the MTX they put out after launch window goes straight into the pockets of the CEOs at the tippy top who forced the publisher to do this to maximize profits.
These companies arent going to shit because they're not making enough money. Theyre going to shit because if they are not making money at a faster rate, year to year, then they are ''breaking even''. Profits have to continue to expand even if by force (as in reduce wages, cut budgets to games, anything that doesnt affect the top CEOs basically). So we end up having all the money continuously going into top guys pockets, and nothing goes into hiring better talent, building a new engine, or licensing a new engine to integrate with yours, and the games begin to stagnate--we have been seeing this repeatedly over the last few years with almost every AAA game.
People are starting to realize we actually CAN make a difference with companies buckling under the pressure, and dropping unheard of 40-50% discounts just mere weeks after release--and people STILL arent buying the shit. I think we're on the cusp of the AAA collapse, and hopefully we can get this shit turned around. These money grubbing douche bags came into this industry because they saw the potential for big money, and they have infected our culture with bad business and weak ethics combined with schemes to prey on peoples psychological weaknesses...shit is real son, this shit is real.
I hope you're right.Dragon Quest for Smash Ultimate!
Rest in peace, Stan Lee.Crenlar posted...N3xtG3nGam3r posted...
I think we're on the cusp of the AAA collapse
Thats what they were saying in 2012
It's been accurate since 2012, the problem with any form of collapse, revolution, anything else you can name is, it needs a trigger, the 1983 crash was caused by more than just terrible games, there was a financial downturn known as the early 1980's recession, that effected pretty much every modern market, not to mention game prices had started to rise more and more, it was a storm long coming (funny that game prices are rising again isn't it), the ps3 had came out a year before the recession of 2008, and while gaming did survive the recession, it also did not have microtransactions at that point, and gaming sales did drop a bit, and it did also show that the gaming market was not as indestructable as people thought, there is a reason the wii was the best selling console of that era after all.
My point is if the 2008 recession happened now, it is quite likely that the gaming industry would suffer heavy losses, while i do not think the gaming industry will die, i do think it may end up losing many of the high graphics, billion dollar budget games that we see today, and microtransactions are unlikely to survive (though they may try to implement them again after things calm down), in all likelihood it will be the era of games like super meat boy and terraria, games that are fairly cheap to make but with a large amount of content.One who does not learn from his mistakes, is doomed to repeat them.tatsuya1221 posted...Crenlar posted...
Video games were kind of a fad in the early 80's. People got caught up in the Pac Man hype and all that but games of those days just werent enough to keep most people entertained so they switched back to watching tv, playing cards, board games etc. It wasnt a long time coming, most people had no gaming consoles until like 1981 or 1982.N3xtG3nGam3r posted...
show hidden quote(s)
Thats what they were saying in 2012
It's been accurate since 2012, the problem with any form of collapse, revolution, anything else you can name is, it needs a trigger, the 1983 crash was caused by more than just terrible games, there was a financial downturn known as the early 1980's recession, that effected pretty much every modern market, not to mention game prices had started to rise more and more, it was a storm long coming (funny that game prices are rising again isn't it), the ps3 had came out a year before the recession of 2008, and while gaming did survive the recession, it also did not have microtransactions at that point, and gaming sales did drop a bit, and it did also show that the gaming market was not as indestructable as people thought, there is a reason the wii was the best selling console of that era after all.
My point is if the 2008 recession happened now, it is quite likely that the gaming industry would suffer heavy losses, while i do not think the gaming industry will die, i do think it may end up losing many of the high graphics, billion dollar budget games that we see today, and microtransactions are unlikely to survive (though they may try to implement them again after things calm down), in all likelihood it will be the era of games like super meat boy and terraria, games that are fairly cheap to make but with a large amount of content.
Games prices arent rising in the US. Maybe they are in other countries. The publishers are surely doing great especially with digital sales on the rise. Non AAA games can have great graphics. Shadow Warrior 2 for instance.
AAA games are just way too entertaining to the masses to go away.
RDR 2 sold more copies than RDR 1 in its first 8 years. Black Ops 4 broke digital sales record. AC Odyssey is the best selling AC since AC 3I am Crenrel and I approve this message.Well they are rising, massively. What $40 got you in the 90s requires $150 plus recurring microtransactions for 2+years.
A lot of children don't buy their own games and have no idea how much they cost now. And I'm quoting American prices, Canadian is even worse. But the old $60 price is actually just an entry fee for the fee2pay version of the game. It's not the cost for the full game. The 90s had no concept of half games. So to compare prices, you must compare full 90s game to full 2018 game price.He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother SilenceSinisterSlay posted...Well they are rising, massively. What $40 got you in the 90s requires $150 plus recurring microtransactions for 2+years.
A lot of children don't buy their own games and have no idea how much they cost now. And I'm quoting American prices, Canadian is even worse. But the old $60 price is actually just an entry fee for the fee2pay version of the game. It's not the cost for the full game. The 90s had no concept of half games. So to compare prices, you must compare full 90s game to full 2018 game price.
$40 in the 90's is $66 adjusted for inflation. Most people will find a modern game more entertaining than a game from the 90's. What $60 game has required dlc?I am Crenrel and I approve this message.Crenlar posted...SinisterSlay posted...
Well they are rising, massively. What $40 got you in the 90s requires $150 plus recurring microtransactions for 2+years.
A lot of children don't buy their own games and have no idea how much they cost now. And I'm quoting American prices, Canadian is even worse. But the old $60 price is actually just an entry fee for the fee2pay version of the game. It's not the cost for the full game. The 90s had no concept of half games. So to compare prices, you must compare full 90s game to full 2018 game price.
$40 in the 90's is $66 adjusted for inflation. Most people will find a modern game more entertaining than a game from the 90's. What $60 game has required dlc?
Every single one now.
And more enjoyment is subjective. Very subjective. I've had way more fun in Monster truck madness then i ever had in forza or project cars.
Try this, play neverwinter nights, then dragon age Origins, the game feels dumbed down and smaller, then play DA:I and you'll notice how incredibly bland and small the game feels even though it's "open world".He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother SilenceOrestes417 posted...SinisterSlay posted...
Every single one now.
Ridiculous hyperbole much? Outside of the MMO genre, which is it's own world, I can't think of many truly required DLCs at all.
Dlc is part of the game, therefore it's required to be the full game that your comparing to in the 90s which didn't have dlc, if it did, I'd include it as a price comparison.He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother SilenceI'm not a fan of the "full game" bullshit. You're buying what's in the box, and you know it when you pull the trigger. Always have. If you're not a moron you're making your value assessment based on what's in the box. And frankly, what's in the box in many cases is far more substantial than those old school games whose asses you keep kissing before you even think about the extras that get added in (all of which get their own value assessments).Please keep talking so we can all pretend that our problems are just in our heads.Orestes417 posted...I'm not a fan of the "full game" bullshit. You're buying what's in the box, and you know it when you pull the trigger. Always have. If you're not a moron you're making your value assessment based on what's in the box. And frankly, what's in the box in many cases is far more substantial than those old school games whose asses you keep kissing before you even think about the extras that get added in (all of which get their own value assessments).
I'm not sure how you'd prove that cd key in the box is more substantial, but that's probably not what you meant.
Still, seeing good 60 hour games now is rare, and unheard of in the AAA world. Balance is tossed out the window in favor of pay2win in all AAA games now. So sorry, but i don't see how modern games somehow give more value than old ones. We'd have to quantify it somehow. For me it's "how long was i having fun for"and that measure almost always favors older games for me.He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother SilenceHours is a terrible measure of value or quality. Always has been. Give me a 10 hour game that hits all it's marks and ends over a 120 hour one that goes on for about 60 too long any day of the century. Besides, if you're talking about spending 60 hours on a game then or now, you're pretty much exclusively talking about either an RPG in some form or a multiplayer game. 5-20 hours was a much more normal figure and frankly still is.Please keep talking so we can all pretend that our problems are just in our heads.SinisterSlay posted...Crenlar posted...
SinisterSlay posted...
show hidden quote(s)
$40 in the 90's is $66 adjusted for inflation. Most people will find a modern game more entertaining than a game from the 90's. What $60 game has required dlc?
Every single one now.
And more enjoyment is subjective. Very subjective. I've had way more fun in Monster truck madness then i ever had in forza or project cars.
Try this, play neverwinter nights, then dragon age Origins, the game feels dumbed down and smaller, then play DA:I and you'll notice how incredibly bland and small the game feels even though it's "open world".
The average person will choose todays games over games from the 90's. If they didnt then we'd still be playing 90's games. ES Daggerfall was a great game for its time but how many would choose that over Witcher 3 or Ac Odyssey? Duke Nukem 3d is one of the most innovative games ever but not many would choose that over Shadow Warrior 2.I am Crenrel and I approve this message.SinisterSlay posted...Orestes417 posted...
SinisterSlay posted...
show hidden quote(s)
Ridiculous hyperbole much? Outside of the MMO genre, which is it's own world, I can't think of many truly required DLCs at all.
Dlc is part of the game, therefore it's required to be the full game that your comparing to in the 90s which didn't have dlc, if it did, I'd include it as a price comparison.
90's had expansions. Did Half-Life become an incomplete game when Opposing Force was released? Half Life Blue Shift?
How about a pre dlc era to dlc era comparison using the same dev. Gothic released in 2001. Had no expansions. According to Howlongtobeat.com it takes 37 hours to do everything. Risen 3 came out in 2014. It takes 51 hours to do everything. It also has 2 dlc's on top of that. Are you really going to try to tell me that Gothic is the more complete game?I am Crenrel and I approve this message.
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